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Scholar Michael Heiser doesn't believe in Universalism and believe eternal hell
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Offline urdrwho
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Scholar Michael Heiser doesn't believe in Universalism and believe eternal hell
« on: March 15, 2023, 09:02:45 PM »
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I've watched many Youtubes from Michael Heiser and he has done some good scholarly work in the OT. I personally have become a Universalist believer and to me it makes sense. Also the idea of eternal damnation never made sense. Just went over to Michael Heiser to hear what he thought about eternal Hell. Michael normally has a lot of text to back him up but when it came to eternal Hell and Universalism his usual textural debating was weak. One of his debating points was, "I just can't buy it." Well that is way outside of his normal method that it made me think that he, as scholarly as he may be, seemed to be lacking a good debate.
Reading the history of the church it is not hard to find what man has done and how man craved the power over people. To name a few you had the Edict of Edict of Thessalonica, the Inquisition, The constitutions of Oxford of 1408. The Oxford of 1408 said, it was illegal?on pain of death?to read the Scriptures in English without a bishop?s licence. To reinforce this, in April 1519 one woman and six men were burned to death at Coventry for teaching their children the Lord?s Prayer, the Ten Commandments, and the Apostles Creed in English. This didn't turn out well for Tyndale.
It always made me a bit unhappy because he never had a worldview of a wide tent for God.
Sadly Michael just recently succumbed to Pancreatic cancer and although I didn't agree on all his works, his thoughts and ideas will be sadly missed.
The Myth Of Hell
https://hell-is-a-myth.webs.com/hellisamyth.htm
Is Hell Real by Michael Heiser
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7I0LLCkr1A
« Last Edit: March 16, 2023, 12:41:07 AM by urdrwho »
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Re: Scholar Michael Heiser doesn't believe in Universalism and believe eternal hell
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2023, 02:11:57 AM »
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May Michael Heiser rest in peace
Interesting that he studied the OT so much, yet didn't relate all the Sheol (Hebrew) = realm of the dead mentions to being death eliminated
1 Samuel 2:6 The Lord kills and he gives life, he sends down to Sheol, he can bring the dead up again.
1 Corinthians 15:22-28 All will be made alive in Christ, but each in his own turn and ultimately Christ will subdue all His enemies, eliminate death and God will be all in all.
By this logic, there should be no dead people existing because all death is eliminated
(and for the conditional immortality crowd... there's thanatos and athanatos meaning death and life, so after earthly death either a human's in Sheol with sin or they have no sin in the heavens)
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Offline urdrwho
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Re: Scholar Michael Heiser doesn't believe in Universalism and believe eternal hell
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2023, 12:41:52 AM »
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I think Mike just couldn't shake his doctrine. Even with his PhD and teaching credentials, etc. he was addicted to doctrine and theology too much to consider anything else.
If you have a chance he does offer some interesting points on the Nephilim.
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Re: Scholar Michael Heiser doesn't believe in Universalism and believe eternal hell
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2023, 02:07:02 AM »
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Quote from: urdrwho on March 17, 2023, 12:41:52 AM
I think Mike just couldn't shake his doctrine. Even with his PhD and teaching credentials, etc. he was addicted to doctrine and theology too much to consider anything else.
If you have a chance he does offer some interesting points on the Nephilim.
I think a lot of "holding on to doctrine" comes with pride. I've gone from ECT, to Annihlationism, to UR too. I rebuke myself for those false ideas I held, I fully admit I was wrong for those. There's a lot of text I made for those prior two ideas that I have deleted / haven't published. I had to give up on that pride of mine and say "Look, I spent a lot of time writing these up, but they're false, so I can't in good conscience post them".
With an academic career as long as a PhD and teaching credentials, admitting UR is true would mean redacting and essentially saying that all those past ideas who wrote were wrong.
Ooo the Nephilim, interesting. There's a lot of theories thrown around about whether they're "mighty men", "legendary warriors", "fallen angels who bred with human females", "giants", "6 ft men", etc.
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Offline WhiteWings
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Re: Scholar Michael Heiser doesn't believe in Universalism and believe eternal hell
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2023, 11:03:21 AM »
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I think a lot of "holding on to doctrine" comes with pride.
And getting/keeping a job.
Song, imagine that to ETs at CD are pastors and after reading their sermons from the Necronomicon for decades, they switch to reading from the Bible.
They would be quickly booted out.
It's much easier to set aside your own pride if the only one you have to admit it to is yourself.
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Offline urdrwho
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Re: Scholar Michael Heiser doesn't believe in Universalism and believe eternal hell
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2023, 05:59:02 PM »
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I sometimes think pastors were taught things but they sat them on a shelf so they could get a job. At 70 years old I've changed that sometimes idea, to more often than not.
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Re: Scholar Michael Heiser doesn't believe in Universalism and believe eternal hell
« Reply #6 on: Today at 07:10:41 AM »
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Quote from: WhiteWings on March 20, 2023, 11:03:21 AM
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I think a lot of "holding on to doctrine" comes with pride.
And getting/keeping a job.
Song, imagine that to ETs at CD are pastors and after reading their sermons from the Necronomicon for decades, they switch to reading from the Bible.
They would be quickly booted out.
It's much easier to set aside your own pride if the only one you have to admit it to is yourself.
Yep, one reason I feel sympathy to people who need to make money off of ECT. Marketing is all about fulfilling a want, and there's a lot of folk who "want" others to be endlessly tortured forever unfortunately.
For me, with ECT, was easier to admit I was wrong since it was just my own writings. Still, I felt bad deleting all that previous content XD. Those ECT books on Amazon, if they deleted those... lost revenue for the publisher. All the time they spent writing it out the window. I certainly felt bad when removing my own writings
Also why I have a lot of respect for people who switch over to Christianity. Muslims reading the Quar'an who then become Christian, takes a lot of guts to isolate yourself from a culture you're surrounded in, and that you're families involved in.
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Re: Scholar Michael Heiser doesn't believe in Universalism and believe eternal hell
« Reply #7 on: Today at 07:13:58 AM »
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Quote from: urdrwho on March 26, 2023, 05:59:02 PM
I sometimes think pastors were taught things but they sat them on a shelf so they could get a job. At 70 years old I've changed that sometimes idea, to more often than not.
Good point. At work, the subordinates can think of a better way to improve efficiency, but management doesn't listen all the time. If long-time pastors cut out the ECT they taught, might get fired for "heresy" unfortunately... Then left with a resume gap with no recommendation. A shame how quick some churches are to boot members out that they disagree with :sigh:
I think a lot of people have an idea that pastors have to have the perfect answer to everything all the time. When people ask me questions, I just let them know I'm a simple human messenger.
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