Hi all :D I'm JSA, a Christian Universalist, subcategories Universal Restorationist and Divine Sovereignty Universalist.
The world rn feels like a mix between r/atetheonion and r/nottheonion
I don't see this verse as an argument for infernalism at least. Since the term "punishment" is referring to a penatly. In order for someone to incur an infinite penalty, they would somehow have to insult the Spirit of grace for an infinite amount of time, before they were even born. Which doesn't make sense. If ECT is right then I see it as no "Spirit of grace" to begin with
Hot or spicy is not a taste
By the way: the sensation of something as “hot” or “spicy” is quite often described as a taste. Technically, this is just a pain signal sent by the nerves that transmit touch and temperature sensations. The substance “capsaicin” in foods seasoned with chili causes a sensation of pain and heat.
It’s good to bel against your parents if they are trying to get you to do things that are against God, like if they're abusive [Acts 5:29]
Acts 5:29 NRSVue But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than any human authority.
www.jesus-saves-all.com — Today at 11:44 PM
i gladly rebel against my mother's emotionally abusive behavior towards my sister for example
[Ephesians 6:1 NRSVue]
Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right.
For one to obey their parents, I think both of these criteria have to be met:
1) “in the Lord” meaning, when your parents have a commandment that matches God’s commandment, it’s good to obey. Ex: Your parents tell you to not murder. Matches God’s commandment. Exodus 20:13
2) “Children”, τέκνα (tekna). Gov of Canada under the “Rights of children” defines a child as anyone under the age of 18 as per Article 1. So this would be directed at minors, not as adults. https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/rights-children.html
Every day is difficult, brutal and contains suffering. It’s a struggle, a challenge, just to be alive. When I was younger, I almost killed myself, but was saved because of a convenient coincidence which I call fate. So, younger me figured he would just keep living until he found a reason to live. Maybe I would be so fortunate as to stumble upon more of these so-called predetermined events? Older me now has chosen the reason of keeping my sister safe from my emotionally abusive mother. My father is emotionally absent. If I’m dead, who then will keep her safe?
Still, some people can go through their whole lives without ever really finding something or someone “worth living” for. Since God is good and God created us with life, there must be at least a good in being alive. With Universalism, I think everyone will fully realize what it is that’s worth living for in paradise.
The saddening part is that, maybe the Almighty God could have created a world with no suffering. Kept the world in a paradise like state like the Garden of Eden? But instead He chose to specifically create this world with suffering in it.
Well, there are parts of the Bible that are definitely allegorical and not meant to be taken literally. The tricky part comes in figuring out which parts of Christianity are historical and which parts are like elaborate metaphors
Galatians 4:23-24 NRSVue One, the child of the enslaved woman, was born according to the flesh; the other, the child of the free woman, was born through the promise. 24. Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One woman, in fact, is Hagar, from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery. Ah, no worries. When one comes with supernatural claims, than it's understandable that a person would want supernatural evidence for them
I think specifically, while there are some aspects of religions in general that can be analyzed historically, there are also parts that really do come as a matter of faith. Like historically, civilizations mentioned in various religious texts can exist for instance. But whether or not supernatural events appeared in them would be a matter of faith
I think the current basis of the scientific method can be one way someone wants to prove something https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_methodThe issue with it is of course the bottom section "Text with experiment". I'm not exactly sure how repeatably supernatural events are in the Bible... Oh my mom immigrated from the Philippines. Buti nalang may discord lol. I'm 22 years old
I actually agree with that when it comes to many of the supernatural events in the Bible. Since God instigates a supernatural event, it would be up to God to repeat said supernatural event. So He would be in the better position of "Observation" I think a lot of debates don't go well because people use different definitions of a word
John 13:34 (NRSVue)
34. I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another.
36. “Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” 37. He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38. This is the greatest and first commandment. 39. And a second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Idk I feel like sometimes people are just atheists because that's the conditions in which they grew up in, or maybe just what they happened to read online. It's not something entirely in their control
Like I used to be an atheist. And it wasn't like I decided to one day wake up out of bed and convert to atheism. It was more like, me just working with the information that I had at that moment, you know?
Even when I became a believer in Christ, I didn't witness a bunch of supernatural events that made me believe. I just kind of, had faith? God just kind of gave me faith and there I was a Christian
I think you mean this verse [Mark 16:15] Look at it closely and it's more so just telling people good news. Like, hey God loves you! Hey, you're not going to burn in hell forever!
If you look at the historical context here [Matthew 24:14 ] That "proclaiming the good news to the whole creation" might specifically be a 70AD reference as per Preterism
Matthew 24:14 (NRSVue)And this good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world, as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Some people speculate that Big Bang could maybe be a reference to Genesis 1:3 "Let there be light" idk just a theory. Agreed. Specifically "hell-fire" preaching is moreso a modern innovation and was not that popular amongst the first 500 years of Christianity Source: https://www.tentmaker.org/books/Prevailing.html
Yeah, endless torment is a false doctrine associated with the Pharisees. And we can see how Jesus talked about the Pharisees.......
There's an audio book of "Universalism the Prevailing Doctrine" that I was listening to, so makes it easier to pull up these parts quickly for the chat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0wafTRMbx4&list=PLHl-4nt21sJEQn8-w8ATOmEWD1AC7RtrQ
For example, the Pharisees, according to Josephus, regarded the penalty of sin as torment without end, and they stated the doctrine in unambiguous terms. They called it eirgmos aidios (eternal imprisonment) and timorion adialeipton (endless torment), while our Lord called the punishment of sin aionion kolasin (age-long chastisement).
Look, honestly, you believe what you believe because of the information available to you, you know? Same with me. I don't think there's anything wrong with just like looking into things and asking questions. I think that makes sense. Our brains literally only have so much physical space, only so many neurons can fire off at once.
For me what made me unhappy was when I was a nihilist. I feel happier as a Christian now, but that's my own subjective personal experience. It was less so proofs people would come up with that made me believe, and more so, like I wanted to believe because I felt like it would be nice. For some other people they may feel happier believing in certain types of things
That's why it's both wrong for a religious person to force their beliefs on another person and for a non religious person to force their lack of belief on another person.
Oh absolutely true. If people want to take a break from Christianity, then that's good. It's easy to get burnt out [Christianity I refer to as studying Christianity specifically as a theological concept can get tiring so its’ good to take breaks since God rested on the 7th Day of Creation.]. Oh ok. And I think everyone deserves a permanent break from toxic fundies. Yes. Someone may be feeling depressed because of a biological medical condition, but they may attribute this to their philosophical outlook when it's not the case.
Yeah. The world can already suck a lot as is. We don't need a bunch of pointless religious debates making things even worse. Even if a person is "saved" from eternal hell, the survivor's guilt they feel for those who were not "saved" makes it impossible to enjoy heaven at all
that's my gripe. like, let's say someone's saved but their families not. God's just like, wiping away all the memories they have of their loved one? That God sounds evil to me tbh
If anyone is in hell forever, let me be there in the fire right next to them. I'm not worshipping a God who tortures even a single person forever
if someone's a christian infernalist they're still saved. same as a christian annihlationist, etc. i don't see it as a salvation issue tbh. I definitely wouldn't want to live forever and ever if Heaven is a life like this with war, disease, heartache, etc. With climate change things are going to get worse for a lot of people in the next 5 years :despair_moment: I really love that. To think, of all the generations of humanity, not even a single person has thought of how awesome Heaven is gonna be.
1 Peter 3:18-20 NRSVue For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, 19. in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, 20. who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight lives, were saved through water.
So we see that it was God's intention to even save the people who were there before Jesus' time. I don't see masturbation as inherently sinful. Walter White from the American crime drama television series "Breaking Bad" only committed a finite amount of sins, therefore, it makes no sense for him to incur an infinite amount of punishment. God literally permits the existence of sin to continue forever by torturing them in hell forever
Bible Verse that is like a reference to the series Breaking Bad
1 Samuel 16:19 YLT And Saul sendeth messengers unto Jesse, and saith, `Send unto me David thy son, who [is] with the flock.'
Yeah nrsvue came out in like 2021 so older sites might still use nrsv. Ayyy bible gateway. yeah that's the one i use for nrsvue